More chiropractic discussion (Split from older post)

SeafordMdf · Post by **SeafordMdf** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:05 pm

Michelle wrote:Why don't the real doctors speak out more about chiropracic? Michelle

Michelle ,

The very first doctor I saw after hurting my back , made a few comments about Chiropractors when I asked him If I should visit one :-

"I can not suggest or recommend that you visit a Chiropractor , However I highly recommend that you see a Physiotherapist as soon as you can" .

My next question was WHY ? about the Chiropractic

Answer , " If I was to recommend or suggest that you visit a Chiropractor and for some unforseeable reason the Chiropractor injured you further , You would then be in a position to take legal action against me for my recommendation"

Mention was made that I could also lodge complaints with the Medical Board with regards to his actions also .

HOWEVER , He did say that he is aware of many people that have had Chiropractic work that seem to respond well to the treatments , But as a Medical Doctor he can only refer or make advice with regards to Physiotherapists as they are considered by the Medical Profession to be qualified to diagnose treat and care for back / spine injuries .

Having said all that , This was the only time I had visited this Doctor and during the initial minutes we both realised that we had both gone to School together and were OLD FRIENDS from the past , That maybe why he was so open with me ?

My own Doctor / GP who I have only seen once with regards to Back problems actually made snide remarks about Physiotherapists and suggested that Spinal Surgeons were the go and promptly wrote out a referal for an CT scan and started planning a course of Cortisone injections and referals to Surgeons for me .

Here is the punch line , He did not examine me in any way , His diagnosis was based entirely on my Answers to his Questions .

Suffice to say I did not bother with the CT scan or go back to him about the problem .

So who do you believe ?

I have not visited a Chiropractor and do not intend to.

But maybe there is a place in some situations where they are warranted ?

Hugo Posh · Post by **Hugo Posh** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:30 am

I really do not understand the medical doctor's point of view with regard to chiropractors. Yes, he is right in saying that he could possibly be sued if the chiropractor commits malpractice. Chiropractor's malpractice rates are lower than any other doctor due to the fact that treatments are very safe. On the other hand the malpractice rates for medical doctors are very high because most mistakes lead to a patient's death or permanent injury. If the MD refers the patient to a surgeon he has a huge amount of liability on his shoulders. I think MD's likes to refer for PT as they can control all aspects of the PT's care. They are unable to do this with regard to a DC. DC can do pretty much whatever they want but would be stupid to go against the wishes of the referring doctor. It wouldn't be long before that doctor quit referring. As far as the referral process there is nothing to stop an MD from referring to a DC. DC take refers from MD's all the time. Some have great professional relationships with chiropractors and some even work together in the same office. I would try to find a chiropractor who strictly treats neuromuscular complaints. I wouldn't give up on the chiropractic approach because of what a few people said. Go find out for yourself and make your own decisions.

SeafordMdf · Post by **SeafordMdf** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:57 pm

Hugo Posh wrote:Go find out for yourself and make your own decisions.

Hugo ,
Thanks for your Information .

In the 2 years since I did my back I've met 3 guys who use a Chiro for their back problems .

They all get relief from the pain , but they all visit the Chiro every month or 2 for another treatment
( All 3 also have a nasty habit of taking a LOT of Paracetamol and / or Ibuprofen tablets , Now that may have nothing at all to do with the back problems at all , I cannot be certain )

The way I see it after looking at them is the Chiropractic work is only a short term fix and requires on going maintainance .

Now that is business and I do understand that .

My Dentist is the same , He loves to make sure I'm there every 12 months to "See if any teeth have fallen out " and every 2nd year to belt me with Radiation "Just to see if something is there in an Xray "

My Doctor is the same , Back there every 12 months for a prescription repeat for tablets I've been taking for 12 years ( Not Back Related ) He has a chin wag , writes the script out and that's it .

DO NOT get me wrong I am NOT anti Chiropractic at all .

I saw it work for my father 25 years ago , He had a Crook back , 2 Visits to our local Chiro and he was fine , never needed to return and now at age 73 his back is still 100%

Just in my case , I can see that a routine of Exercise and keeping a correct posture is likely to be the best for me.

Hugo Posh · Post by **Hugo Posh** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:55 pm

SeafordMdf, thank you for the warm reply. I understand where you are coming from with regard to chiropractic treatments and the need for monthly or bimonthly care. Let me try to make this understandable. Many of the patients that end up in a chiropractor's office have degenerative arthritis for which there is no cure. What chiropractic treatment does is it restores motion to these affected areas. It also helps slow the progression of the disease, decrease inflammation and helps reduce pain. The goal is to restore joint function, which slows the degenerative process. Then these areas need to be stabilized with proper stabilizing exercises. Periodic care keeps the spine functioning optimally and helps prevent futher wear and tear.

SeafordMdf · Post by **SeafordMdf** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:38 am

Hugo ,
Thanks for the information.

Interesting to get a Chiro perspective on things as I've only had Doctors and Physio's perspectives , I think a balanced opinion is always the best to determine any course of action .

Degenerative arthritis , I'm not familiar with that at all , Arthritis , yes that I'm familar with .

Is it something that is age related to Arthritis ? ( Excuse my ignorance ! )

How does a Doctor or a Chiropractor make a diagnosis of Degenerative arthritis ?

I "Assume" that is not visible in CT or MRI imaging ?

So is it done by Exclusion and specific tests or via Visual and patients pain / history methods ?

Thanks ,

Mark

Hugo Posh · Post by **Hugo Posh** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:22 pm

SeafordMdf wrote:Hugo ,
Thanks for the information.

Interesting to get a Chiro perspective on things as I've only had Doctors and Physio's perspectives , I think a balanced opinion is always the best to determine any course of action .

Degenerative arthritis , I'm not familiar with that at all , Arthritis , yes that I'm familar with .

Is it something that is age related to Arthritis ? ( Excuse my ignorance ! )

How does a Doctor or a Chiropractor make a diagnosis of Degenerative arthritis ?

I "Assume" that is not visible in CT or MRI imaging ?

So is it done by Exclusion and specific tests or via Visual and patients pain / history methods ?

Thanks ,

Mark

Degenerative arthritis, I'm not familiar with that at all, Arthritis, yes that I'm familiar with .

Degenerative arthritis=Osteoarthritis (OA).
Arthritis= more than 100 different conditions.

Is it something that is age related to Arthritis ? ( Excuse my ignorance ! )

Osteoarthritis (a form of arthritis and most common) is typically related to age. Meaning we see it more often in older individuals. We have seen it in younger patients as well but typically it is from an injury that happened at an earlier age.

How does a Doctor or a Chiropractor make a diagnosis of Degenerative arthritis ? I "Assume" that is not visible in CT or MRI imaging ?

No, it is visible. Imaging is the best way to diagnose this condition. Chiropractors order and interpret x-ray, CT or MRI.

So is it done by Exclusion and specific tests or via Visual and patients pain / history methods ?

A thorough history can lead to a working diagnosis of OA. Further testing (typically an x-ray) will lead to a definitive diagnosis. Fairly common and fairly easy to diagnosis.

Jeanette · Post by **Jeanette** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:57 pm

Hugo Posh wrote: I think MD's likes to refer for PT as they can control all aspects of the PT's care.

Actually, Hugo, in some states (Colorado is one) PTs "practice" in the same sense that DCs do. The patient does not did to have a physician referral--the sticking point for both individuals and PT services is often whether or how much insurance will cover without one.

For myself, having ruled out any major medical conditions and with my GP's knowledge, I've recently consulted a PT for a problem that's reappeared in a different permutation after a number of injuries over the last 25 years. In that time I've found that, in general, physios have been the most helpful of the medical professionals I've consulted in keeping me going over the long-term--usually with individualized exercise or stretching, with full explanations of purpose AND instruction in the correct execution of those exercises. This has been in addition to short-term soft-tissue injury recovery and pain relief that range-of-motion work, massage, heat and ice can provide.

(Many of those exercises, BTW, are the same or similar to those that appear in Dean's and other good spine care books. And, turns out, they do work when you keep at them. Fancy that!

)

There's nothing wrong with carefully considered short-term pain relief--whether PT, chiropractic or pharmaceutical--when it's needed to relieve the intense pain-tension cycle that many back pain sufferers occasionally find themselves in. Of course, the less often we can experience one of those nasty episodes, the better. For that, we're usually the one in charge!

It's been my experience that the good practitioners (based on effectiveness) -- whatever the initials following their names -- are anxious to help by educating you! If they're too busy or reluctant to explain clearly what's going on--no mumbo-jumbo, please, skip the jargon

--and what you need to do to help yourself, then it's probably time to look for someone or something else.

Interesting discussion...thanks, everyone, for participating.