prolotherapy is working!

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prolotherapy is working!

Post by TBone » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:59 am

I don't want to jinx myself, but I wanted to send along this message in case it could help others with chronic back pain.

Back in November of 2008 I did prolotherapy for my lower back. I have since gotten 4 additional treatments spaced out about 6 weeks apart. I am finally starting to feel normal again. The prolo has given me some stability that has allowed me to begin and continue a fairly rigorous physical therapy program. I am now able use an elliptical machine every third day for about 25 minutes, along with several other exercises including some of the RYB exercises/stretches and some I got from my PT. I have even begun lifting weights (only 3 and 5 lbs.).

Some of the other debilitating aspects of my injury are starting to go away. Sitting was a real issue for me. I could only sit for very short periods of time and when I did, the pain and discomfort was really frustrating. I couldn't enjoy anything like going out to restaurants or movies and work became an exercise in futility. Yesterday, my family and I went to Friday's and I remember turning to her at one point and saying, "Hey, I haven't thought about my back since we've sat down".

My forward flexion is also getting better. I have been making sure to include some of those exercises in my routine...although I modify them so that the chance of injury is almost nothing.

The areas my prolotherapist has treated are:
both sacroiliac joint (the left more than the right)
L3 - L5 facet joint
The tail bone
and some of the thoracic facet joints

I am certainly not out of the woods yet, but I can see the light. It feels like a "fair fight" now. It seemed before that no matter what I did, the pain would not go away...anytime I tried to increase the amount of exercises or the intensity, I would have a relapse. Prolo has changed that. I have been able to continually add exercises, reps, and intensity without hurting myself.

I want to emphasize how important it is to do PT along with the prolo because it really assists in getting blood to the area which aids in healing. I also use heat, supplements, diet (low carb, no white sugar...high protein), and massage (my wife does this for me 3 times per week for 20 minutes). This is a lifestyle change that I will continue as long as I am able because I believe it will be long term prevention andI don't think I can go through this a third time.

Like I said before, I don't know when I will be could take another 6 months to a year or longer...but I have seen progress and I am willing to see this process through.

There are almost too many sources to get more information on prolotherapy. Some of the literature promises too quick a cure, I think. They say it takes 3-6 treatments on average. Who am I to disagree with their data. I know that for me, when I first did prolo back in 2002-2003, it took 11 treatments and over a year. I don't expect my progress will be any quicker this time because I am 6 years older! I guess a good source for info would be a website called caring medical. Ross Hauser is the prolotherapist that sort of leads the field in research and knowledge. I went to him 6 years ago until I found a closer doc to my home.

I hope this can help those of you who, like me, needed a boost.

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Post by Dean » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:25 pm

Hi Tbone,

I've been hoping you'd update us on your prolo experience. I'm still leery of that procedure, but glad you're making improvement none the less.

Keep us posted,


Post by TBone » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:03 am

I will keep you posted. If anybody needs more information on how the procedure works or how to find a good prolo doctor, I am more than happy to help.

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Prolotherapy does work

Post by yannick35 » Sat May 16, 2009 1:56 pm

You need to give it a chance, i am on my 13 treatment, and i have improved a lot too, my pelvic stays aligned now, and i started lifting weights again.

It is a life change, i dont run anymore, dont feel the need for it either.

Prolotherapy can take a lot of treatements i have seen 18 for an elbow pain, dont know how many are left for me, my doctor usually plays around with the dosage of dextrose between 12 and 15%.

I am also taking glucosamine supplement, collgen and eating a lot better, drinking tones of water and have recently dropped 15 pounds so back to 200 pounds my blood pressure has dropped has well, i used to be 140/90 and now its back to normal 120/80.

I wish that more people could have access to prolo because for me it changed my life.

Prolo can also protect and help a hernia heal up by strenghtening the lower back region and making the ligaments and tendons more solid.

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Post by randolph 2 » Sun May 17, 2009 11:37 pm

Hello Tbone and yannick

I'm wondering how you're paying for the prolotherapy - insurance, cash; and how much the treatments cost?

Also wondering, with all the other changes you're making with lifestyle, etc., how much of your wonderful improvements are due to the prolotherapy and how much to the other changes?

FYI, best clinical trials show that efficacy of glucosomine is no better than placebo. The theory of why taking it should be helpful makes sense ... but practical results show no real help. Taking collagen a bit more controversial: another one of those supplements that sounds like it would make sense to take it ... but all the evidence of efficacy is anecdotal. Being on the poor side, I've got to spend $$$ on medications that have been shown clinically to be efficacious ... but if you've got the extra cash, probably can't hurt to take these controversial supplements.



Post by TBone » Mon May 18, 2009 7:41 am

Hey Randolph,

The treatments are not least for me. The low back area is around $400 per visit (every six weeks). The theory behind prolotherapy is that, most of the time, chronic pain (especially from sports injuries) comes from loose ligaments. When they become overstretched and damaged, they can no longer hold the big structures (pelvis or spine) in place which means that the muscles have to try to do that job. Chronic tightness occurs. Additionally, the ligaments themselves have nerve endings that fire constantly when they are damaged. Since ligaments have a poor blood supply, they can take forever to heal and the healing can be incomplete. Prolo creates a "mock" injury which is simply designed to get you body to naturally respond with more urgency. The doc basically injects sugar water where the damaged ligaments meet bone to create inflammation. The solution is completely harmless, so no bridges are burned. The end result is thicker, stronger ligaments.

Prolo helped me get out of chronic pain back in 2002. I went from not being able to tie my own shoes, to playing hockey, tennis, golf,...I even put in a basement and patio. It took about 18 months. The doc had me do several different exercises to help me strengthen the area and make it more flexible. Sometime after I considered myself healed, I stopped doing my exercises. A couple of years after that (2007), I had a lumbar strain. Like an idiot, I didn't want to miss this tennis tournament that I had signed up for, so I tried to train merely 10 days after the strain (which was getting better)...and back "blew out".

So, in essence, you are correct, prolo isn't singularly "the answer". You have to eat right and exercise properly and stretch while doing the treatments...and forever after. However, for someone like me, who played competitive junior tennis for close to 15 years (3 or more hours of practice per day) and then followed that up in my 20's by playing hockey and golf and hoops in several leagues while maintaining a desk job, prolo is probably the only option. I forgot to mention, I also ran a marathon just before I turned 30. The wear and tear that I put my low back through was too much for exercise alone to heal it.

It really does work. There are several prominent athletes who have used it to alleviate their chronic pain and extend their careers. Simon Gagne, Kendall Gill, Mark Simoneau, Stan Mikita. C. Everett Koop also had what was deemed intractable chronic back pain that was relieved by prolo.

I'll stop trying to justify it now. :)

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Post by jenfromzen » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:03 pm

How many visits did it take until you felt a difference? I don't understand why you wouldn't feel better each time you do it? Why suddenly would I start feeling better after the 6th visit if I felt no improvemen after the first 5? This is the part that make me distrustful. There is no way to tell for all these visits if you are wasting your money or not. I really don't have money to spare so I'm really not sure whether to continue, I'd only be at round 3 for this year anyway, gave up after 3 last year, now this doc is cheaper, but I dont' feel like he sticks the needle in as many times as the other dr and he doesn't wait for the whole area to numb so it hurts a lot when he does it.

My other big dilemma is that I have upper hamstring pain from chronic tendonosis and other groin tendons that I injured and I believe this pelvic instabiliy or somehow pulling the on the pelvis from the tendon injuries is at least party responsible for my back pain. I found out that my health insurance in NY will pay for me to see this orthopedic surgeon in North Carolina that is the only surgeon in the US to operate on hamstring and other groin tendons with tendinosis and not complete ruptures. Most docs wil only go into a complete rupture. But my company is always shopping out our insurance to find something cheaper so they might switch the plan Nov 1st, that doesn't give me enough time to try a lot of prolo before deciding to try to have surgery paid for thru this insurance. I'm never going to get the chance to have this paid for again. Do I go have the surgery and then if that isn't enough figure on continuing prolo in the future? Also, my prolo doc has me come every 2 weeks at $175 so it gets very tough to keep paying that every other week, he seems to think for my bad case coming sooner will be more helpful, but I never heard of anyone coming back that fast. If I don't start going to consult with that orthopedist now, prolly no way I can get approved for and schedule a procedure prior to Nov 1st and also having to clear the dates with my boss at work. I can't do all that at the last minute just to try prolo a few more weeks. But I'm afraid of getting worse after another surgery (had one in Finland when I couldn't find a dr here and that one didn't work, but his dr seems to think he can do a better job of it.

Anyway, I guess nobody can tell me what to do. I just wonder too though that some people have said the prolo helping only to have gone back to pain again a year later. I can't afford to see a dr twice a week for 6 mos to a year every other year. I feel like when they say permanent it should be permanent, lasting a year is not permanent. I don't think because you didn't exercise or stretch all the time should be a reason for it to suddenly fail a year later. Unless you had a bad accident, I can't see how you can't blame the prolo for it not holding up. If it really healed you then a year later you should still be ok, I don't know, just I'm also leary of that, thinking that I will have to keep returning forever for something that is just really unaffordable and overcharged. My doc does it in about 10 min or less so I'm not sure why it has to be so expensive. The solution is just water and sugar so clearly he is just making $175 in 10 minutes, if he really was doing it to help people would a salary of $50 in 10 minutes still be a lot of friggan money? I can't earn $50 in 2 hours even so I can't see why they can't have a sliding scale at least, check everyone's pay stubs and charge accordingly since he can't bilk some insurance company. 18 treatments would cost me thousands while now is my chance to have surgery for almost free under and HMO that is allowing me to see a dr in another state, that almost never happens.

I know I made a lot of typos, but would take too long to fix them! I just have no idea for sure that doing something to my hamstring or other tendons attached to the pelvis/ischial tuberosity will somehow make my lower back pain go away, but the chronic back pain came on shortly after the injury to the groin so maybe it will, maybe when you injure the tendon it doesn't become looser, but tighter, due to scar tissue and inelasticity, this would then make prolo make no sense. What I feel in at least one of the tendons is a tightness that seems unrelieved by stretching, making this thicker then would seem to be counterproductive so that also makes me wonder if prolo is at least not a good idea over there compared to in my lower back ligaments. My next prolo appt is Tues, that leaves me Mond to cancel it as it is Fri evening now and they'd be closed.
TBone wrote:I will keep you posted. If anybody needs more information on how the procedure works or how to find a good prolo doctor, I am more than happy to help.

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Prolo works

Post by yannick35 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:12 pm

You need to be in control of your treatment, that is important and realize that you need to be sore for 3-4 days after your treatment, this means that the irritation is there and working.

I am going for my 16 treatment the dosage have been changed from 4cc to 6cc dextrose, xylocaine zeel and some iron is the mix currently used for me.

I realize that its expensive that is why i got every 3 weeks or so, you also need to understand that my ligaments have been very weak for almost 8 years and with all the chiro and other morons i have seen that got me worst, that is why in my case its taking so long but its night and day.

I can weight train again, squat, deadlift or course not 500 pounds but around 100-150 pounds.

Now for your question, the ligaments and tendons need time to get stronger, and no you wont feel it the first time, and depending on the treatment maybe not the sixth time either, i felt great after my 4 time but you need to give the treatment time to work, the body to repair itself, you need a good glucosamine complex along and some decompression like an inversion table, drink water 1 gallon a day.

The rebuild your back program is the best i have seen so far and for the price its amazing far better then the losethebackpain program where theses jerks are in it for the money and no nothing about what they say.

Its lot of money and i understand your concern but you also have to think that by doing all this there will be light at the end of the tunel, no false promes like the chiros do all the time to you will get better.

Prolotherapy saved my life and i am not payed to say this.

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Re: Prolo works

Post by jenfromzen » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:48 am

Thanks for the reply. As usual seems I've quit it for now. Wasted a lot of money trying various failed hair extension methods after some crazy hair stylist destroyed my hair this summer. I guess then I would've had money to try it longer, but the other thing is that I found out my health insurance will cover me for the tendon expert orthopedist in North Carolina who had mentioned the possibility of redoing surgery to my hamstring and hopefully see what he can do for the other injured tendons near it. And my health insurance plan might change Nov 1st so doesn't give me time to try prolo 6 or 9 times to see if helping even if I had the money. Thing is I don't think my doctor was very good. He schedules too many patients and doesn't have time or just isn't his style of prolotherapy to do many injections and because he doesn't want to take time to pre-numb the area with lidocaine so that I could actually handle the pain of more injections, I just feel like that is why I'm not getting the same level of treatment as someone who is paying $1000 to $4000 a visit versus $175. So I could see him for a year and not get anywhere I think because I think hitting each spot with one or two tiny injections is probably a waste of time. I think I agree with the Hauser method where you have to do many injections into an area to do enough to really rouse up an injury response that is going to generate the fribroblasts needed to promote healing. I also don't know how many visits I have to waste before he figures out the right solution either. If I'm really bad off, why not just assume I need a really strong one instead of wasting my time and money by giving me a weak solution. I mean if He's trying to save me from pain, don't, because what pains me is to waste my money and not see any progress. Even if I stretched it out to every 3 weeks, right now I don't even think I could afford $175 and to go back to the better doctor that numbs you up so he can give you a decent amount of injections per area is to shelp into NJ and I would have to have more like $2500 to $3500 per visit, which is prolly why he tells people 4 to 6 weeks, but even at that time frame, I can't come up with that kind of money. So I think I will have to try to get better the old fashioned way and do what my insurance will pay for. If a doctor goes into at least some of my bad tendons, then they will definately be forced to have a healing response and it won't take me a year of painful shots to get it . It will be done in a matter of hours. I think of people don't heal after surgery, then why would they heal after any # of injections? I just can't wait another year to get better either as I'm at the point of severe disability, can hardly go anywhere, can't bear to stand anywhere any more.

And the prolo dr wouldn't hit everywhre I'd really need the prolo, he never has time for my feet, fingers, neck, upper back and shoulders so I'd have to be going to him for 3 to 4 years and so even at 3 week intervals of $175 there' no way on my salary I can pay for that. And hopefully by 5 years or so from now, the stem cell treatments will be available so probably I should save my money and wait for that since that will actually grow new tendon tissue, at least if it is working, that's what it should do like they do in the horses. I just need to get to a stage where I can manage the wait for the better treatment that is coming even if maybe it won't be fully functional for maybe as long as 10 more years. The problem with prolo is how long you have to try it and how much money you have to invest before you can see if it is helping or not. I guess the other problem with it is when I've heard from people that say they got better only to regress a year later and have to consider doing it again. To think that I'd have to keep reoding it every other year forever just really makes it completely unaffordable as well. Plus it was problematic these drs only work during the same hours I am supposed to be at work so it means every few weeks having to miss a whole day or part of a day of work. :cry:


Post by TBone » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:35 am

hello jenfromzen,

Prolotherapy isn't the only method that can get you to pain free. Just look at Dean! There are many methods out there. I too have stopped doing prolo because over the last 2 visits, I noticed that the areas hadn't improved as far as pain is concerned.

Hopefully that means my ligaments have healed and it is now just a matter of regaining the long lost strength and flexibility I once took for granted. I have been rehabbing the "standard way" for 4 weeks and there has been some improvement so I think I am on my way.

I have a good friend who has had pain in his right sacroiliac and low back area for 2 years now. He was "couch-ridden" for quite some time...couldn't even work. Over the past 5 weeks or so, he's been chewing my ear off about this method he's been using that has produced some great results for him. Apparently, the techniques are more "eastern" in nature with a good amount of stretching and muscle balancing.

He has started to work again which is a good sign and he seems so much more optimistic...I had to talk him out of "ending it" one night. Not good. The program is called X-Pain. The guy who invented it is named Graeme Teague. He is from New Zealand.

I myself have no need to look into this program (at this point) because I am improving with Rebuild your Back and some special exercises my PT gave me. If I plateau, then I might give it a try. The cost is fairly minimal...something like $50 which also allows you to email the inventor directly for questions.

You might want to give it a try. What do you have to lose? My buddy thought his life was over and man did he age over the last 2 years. But, I have to say, there must be something to this method because he looks so much better...especially his posture and gait.

Good luck

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