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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:05 pm
by Guest
I have to admit that I have been going to a chiropractor. I did not have alot of faith in them, but my father-in-law has sworn by the one he goes to. He swears that his chiropractor kept him from having to have back surgery several years ago. He pulled his back out a few months ago and could hardly walk. He went back to the chiropractor and I can tell a difference in my father-in-law's movements. I am currently going to this same doctor because, at this point, I'll try anything, but I can't tell any difference. Do you think that they can help some people, depending on what the problem is? Meg

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:10 am
by Jason
Hi Meg,

Chiropractors don't do anything.

They are masters at making you "believe" they are helping you. It's all a mind game. Any improvement that you make while under their treatment, you would have made had you done nothing at all. They then take credit for your body healing itself, which they had nothing to do with.

The fact that your father-in-law hurt his back again dispite his misguided belief in chiropractic is proof it did nothing to really make his back stronger. Rebuilding your back is the only thing that can do that.

If you get your father-in-law to start rebuilding his back, he'll some day throw rocks a his chiropractor for keeping him weak and vulnerable to injury all these years.
Jason

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:11 pm
by Steven
Hi Meg,

The only way a chiropractor can help you is if he or she incorporates more than just chiropractic adjustments into his treatment methods. I have heard that there are some good chiropractors around who won't adjust your back unless it's actually needed and aren't looking to just put you on an endless back cracking program.

I've seen no proof of this, but it is possible these "doctors" (I use the term loosely) actually exist.

There is nothing preventing a chiropractor from teaching you how to rebuild your back. Of course, first he has to know how himself. And secondly, he has to be willing to shoot himself in the foot, because once you learn how, there will be no reason for you to keep coming back to him.

Steven

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:19 pm
by Bill
Hey guys,

Every chiropractor I've ever talked to about rebuilding your back is quick to agree with the principles in Dean's book. They all, without exception, say they advocate rebuilding as the most sensible course of action... (along with chiropractic adjustments, of course.)

Trouble is, I don't recall a single chiropractor mentioning it back when I had back trouble and was shelling out good money to them for worthless treatments.

You do the math,
Bill

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:45 am
by Hugo Posh
Chiropractic is not a religion so you do not need to have faith for it to work. The thing is, it does work and there is plenty of medical research on the subject. It's nice to see your father got the help he so desperately needed. As far as not noticing any changes just hang in there, sometimes it just takes time. You already know their treatments work, just look at your father. Don't listen to the chiro bashers here as many have no clue what they are talking about.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:35 pm
by randolph
There are some good chiropractors ... there are some bad chiropractors. So to call all DCs bad because of those who are incompetent, would be as bad as calling all DCs good because the few you have experience with have been good. The point is: BEWARE! Get educated so you can recognize the "red flags" of incompetent chiropractry. One good place to start is chirobase.org. (see the Resources link on the bottom of this website's homepage). One article there is devoted entirely to how to recognize a potentially harmful chiropractor.

When searching for a good car mechanic, or teacher for your children, or pastor, or house-painter, or etc. etc., it's just common sense to find out about the quality of past work from anyone you want to give money to. Do you mean, Hugo, that I have to check my brain in at the door when I enter a chiropractor's office, just because he has the word "doctor" in front of his name?

The fact is, for some DCs, chiropractic is a religion, and a significant number of chiropractic organizations are devoted to preventing any scientific validation of their work, and actively stifle any information that might expose incompetent chiropractic. Also, many states, including my home state of NC, have laws, lobbied by practitioners of questionable chiropractic, that prevent any possibility of suing a chiropractor in case of malpractice. So anyone considering chiropractic care (which does have its place) should really get educated on what to look for in a competent DC.

Now if you were to ask me for a good car mechanic, and I told you about some mechanics to avoid, you wouldn't call me a "car mechanic basher" would you, Hugo? In the same way, I think a lot of what you would call "chiro bashing" here is just a warning to beware of incompetence.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:12 pm
by Jeanette
randolph wrote:There are some good chiropractors ... there are some bad chiropractors. So to call all DCs bad because of those who are incompetent, would be as bad as calling all DCs good because the few you have experience with have been good. The point is: BEWARE! Get educated so you can recognize the "red flags" of incompetent chiropractry. One good place to start is chirobase.org. (see the Resources link on the bottom of this website's homepage). One article there is devoted entirely to how to recognize a potentially harmful chiropractor....if you were to ask me for a good car mechanic, and I told you about some mechanics to avoid, you wouldn't call me a "car mechanic basher" would you, Hugo? In the same way, I think a lot of what you would call "chiro bashing" here is just a warning to beware of incompetence.


I think Randolph's said it best...not all chiropractors are created equal...or doctors or physical therapists or personal trainers, ad nauseum. More and more these days, it behooves us all to educate ourselves, so that we not only ask questions of our health care providers to better understand and learn from them, but also so we can recognize flim-flam when we see it. (Any unwillingness to help you understand should raise if not red, at least yellow, flags!) Only by educating ourselves can we become partners in our own health care. And don't forget second -- or third -- opinions. Even disparate diagnoses can be useful in raising more questions.

This site is a good place -- no, a great place -- to start, but don't stop here! Follow up on the links Dean has provided and Google more information on your own. It's out there, believe me, the good, bad, and awful :( Also, hit the local library and bookstores. If you have access to one, check out a university or college medical library. Not all information worth having can be found on the internet. As Dean says somewhere, "Read all you can get your hands on."

I know this seems like a lot of work, but it can really pay off in more knowledgeable choices. Good luck.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:30 am
by Hugo Posh
Good post Randolph. Yes, I agree that everyone should do a little research before doing anything, whether it's seeing a chiropractor, seeing a PT or going to a medical doctor. There are some groups of chiropractors that people should avoid entirely. Those are the subluxationists or "straight" variety. Chirobase has a lot of good information but it is entirely one sided. I'm not denying that a lot of what is on there is true, but they only print one side of the story.

As far as chiro bashing goes, it is rampant here. A few people here and there like Jeanette will mention that not all chiropractors are bad, just like not all medical doctors or attorneys are bad. For the most part it's out right bashing. There are people on here labeling the whole profession as quacks frauds and saying they are causing all sorts of injuries etc. So no, I do not agree with you that bashing is not going on. It's beyond a "warning" or "beware".

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:01 am
by Nemo
Yea, only 98% of chiropractors are "bad".....so don't judge the other 2% so harshly....

The better the chiropractor is, the more he has deviated away from anything that is uniquely chiropractic. As the saying goes:

Q: "What do you call an evidence based chiropractor?"
A: " A physical therapist".

As someone who has been through a chiropractic program, I can tell you its a complete joke.

I must urge people to avoid DCs at all costs.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:05 am
by Hugo Posh
Nemo wrote:Yea, only 98% of chiropractors are "bad".....so don't judge the other 2% so harshly....

The better the chiropractor is, the more he has deviated away from anything that is uniquely chiropractic. As the saying goes:

Q: "What do you call an evidence based chiropractor?"
A: " A physical therapist".

As someone who has been through a chiropractic program, I can tell you its a complete joke.

I must urge people to avoid DCs at all costs.


Nemo, are you that guy over at the chiroweb always complaining about how bad chiropractic is?
(Edited by Admin)
If you majored in medicine you would be urging people to avoid it... (Edited) ... admit chiropractic isn't the problem.

(Reason for edits: "Flaming" or personal attacks are not allowed on this board.)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:10 pm
by Kevin Smith, D.C.
[quote="Jason"]

Chiropractors don't do anything.

That is completely false. I am a chiropractor in my 6th year of practice and I have helped many people with neuromusculoskeletal problems. These people had already tried over the counter medications, prescription strength medications, physical therapy and even surgery and didn't get any better until they came to see me.

You can believe anything you want. But my track record speaks for itself.


Warmly,


Kevin Smith, D.C.
Clinic Director, Advanced Chiropractic, P.C.
[edited by admin]

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:41 am
by randolph
Kevin

The "efficacy of chiropractic" that you observe in your practice is, in no small part, due to:

Placebo effect. We can apparently think ourselves better. Nice if it happens, but to depend on this, especially for truly serious diseases, can be fatal.

Reluctance of consumers who have invested money in a product to think critically about what they've received. Few of us want to admit we've been fooled out of our money.

The touching and increased verbal attention DC's give to patients relative to other treatment options. The "personal" touch is nice, but not indicative of the efficacy of chiropractic.

Attributing the natural progression of many ailments to heal without any treatment at all to whatever treatment happens to coincidentally be administered. (I've got a machine in my garage that makes sure the sun comes up each morning without fail; aren't you glad I remember to turn on that machine every day?)

There is no question that many people receive benefit from chiropractic care. The question is why. A little critical thinking demonstrates there are almost always better ways to spend our medical dollars.

I can understand your reluctance to think critically about the efficacy of chiropractic: you've got an awful lot invested in it. But as medical consumers, we have to think better, and differently than you, to insure optimum, physical health.

Randolph